This has become a life hack for unexceptional people to get the attention they crave. Why be exceptional or resilient when you can just be oppressed by life? Both paths will give you attention but one is a lot more work.
You are spot on, Hannah. “Depression” and “suicidality” have been weaponised as means of controlling others, mostly parents, partners, teachers and members of the caring professions.
Another insightful presentation by Dr. Spier exposing the manipulative perversion of the concept of "mental health". Thought experiment: drop these young women on the prairie that their great-grandmothers conquered. Buck up or die. This is not hyperbole. Vigorous, necessary manual labor produces a biological state where the brain does not permit the state of "depression". That is not to say that true "endogenous" depression does not exist. We have all seen it. It is not anything like what is exhibited in the videos. Yours, Samuel M, MD.
Thank you Samuel, this is so true. Sometime I find my safe thinking- wow these kids need a war. They want adversity so badly they are hurting themselves to get it.
This histrionic performance piece was not at all like the suicide attempt my wife made. I brought up the subject of divorce for the first time and she didn't yell, scream at me, or hit me like she usually does. She went silent and emotionally withdrew, sort of shutting down. That same night she quietly slipped out of bed while we were sleeping and set the house on fire, then slipped back into bed so we would all die together. Fortunately the smoke alarms went off. I covered for her by telling the kids that the water heater was what started the fire. She was getting treatment for bipolar disorder with psychotic behaviors, meaning that she suffered from hearing voices in her head and intrusive thoughts that urged her to harm herself and told her she was broken and useless, that everyone would be better off if she was dead. Very early in our marriage she was diagnosed with manic depression and hypersexual disorder.
My goodness Kurt I’m really sorry you all experienced that. I hope you are have recovered and the kids didn’t suffer any lasting effects that event. Indeed, the suicidality of bipolar individuals is a different kettle of fish.
"What we are seeing is an inversion. In the clinical presentation, the person often hides suicidal intent because she wants to die without being stopped. In the performative presentation, suicidal language is made public because the reaction is the point. It becomes virtue signalling and leverage to move the world into compliance."
Thank you.
I know Terence Pop will be on your program to discuss this very dark reality.
When I read this article what strikes me is the repetition of a pattern that dominates the West.
The truth / reality is almost always the inversion of the propaganda 'consensus' narrative.
The propaganda consensus narrative is almost always fictitious. Or at least limited on truth.
But the fiction survives because it is subsidized. The source of subsidization can be government, media, academia, wealthy social engineers, 'foundations,' transnational globalists, big tech, big business, to name the top dogs. There are usually multiple of these sources involved.
Men 'successfully' self-delete multiple times more than women. There is little concern in society for men, which is not new, because they are treated as disposable (see war). And there is little concern for men deleting themselves. E.g., see another, recent, case of a school immediately, unquestioningly believing a female's false accusation of SA against a young man, Owen Poirier.
Women make THREATS of suicide multiple times more than men, but are 'unsuccessful.' So whereas the real threat of self-deletion of men is marginalized, the performative threats of attention-seeking (not all) women receive almost all the focus and the vast majority of the resources. "there are approximately three female suicide attempts per every one male suicide attempt"
I think you are saying that a worthwhile reversion is to cease rewarding (subsidizing) the performative. I realize there are absolutely valid cases where people need differing degrees (triage) of outside help. But, generally, the culture of the West is an expectation that an individual takes responsibility & accountability for their actions. And their thoughts, by extension. We lost the balance. But I think the only way to cut off rewarding the performative is to reach even further back and destroy, yes destroy, the numerous motivations (agendas) that drive the rewarding of the performative in the first place,
As a post-op trans woman diagnosed with severe combat PTSD from the Bosnian and Kosovo civil wars, this article hits hard but I find it accurate on a delicate subject. I’ve had to almost fight well-meaning people and professionals to let me define my recovery towards actual recovery! There are financial rewards to the system to keep people like myself in recovery so it disincentivizes recovery to a degree. I finally broke my frightening occurrences of suicidal ideation by realizing I actually wasn’t wanting to die but wanted a less painful life. Being a Buddhist helped me because we note that life is fundamentally painful and we take steps to understand and reduce its effect. I get shunned because I believe there can be successful recoveries and a return to more or less regular life and it doesn’t make me better than others - just resilient. There’s a history of suicide in our family so my Mom made me promise her I would reach out if I ever felt the need. It happened twice and in the moments before I felt it was going to happen I reached out which saved my life. Suicide is not something to be using as a badge of courage. It’s horrifying and frightening when you can’t trust yourself to let yourself survive. Many veterans (and trans women) are dead. More than died in actual combat. I am trying not to be the next casualty and I think I will succeed. To those who think there’s no reason to share about brushes with suicide - there’s one I know of - that’s to try to save others that may be in similar situations.
"We have spent years teaching young people that suffering confers insight, that victimhood confers moral authority and that the person who has been hurt most should be listened to first." 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Some people do not possess the motional resilience to engage and persevere through typical, normal daily activities. Sad truth about doing the math and weighing the costs of effort, time, and return on investment.
but maybe they just couldn't make it in the adult world and thus regress functionally into dependency. the functioning adults muddle through for better or worse depending on their health (mental and physical) and circumstances. generation after generation for the last 2,000-3,000 cycles ?
Yes, it’s called adulthood and it’s been done for millennia! 💪 But today’s fragile souls can’t handle ANYTHING without feeling like a victim!😡 No grit in their precious little weak lives…🤡
You are 100% right about the diagnosis. Shaming will make some people buck up and go on with their lives. Lack of shame will make some people talk about depression a lot more than is appropriate. I believe your approach comes from a good place. It will still kill people. Yes there are some people who hide their suicidality tactically -- and these people can't be shamed out of it. Raising the shame on depression will not save any of them. But there are other people who would talk about it, except they are worried about being shamed and mocked. When people are shamed for discussing depression they hide it and since it is less legible that they are depressed it's less likely anybody will offer them help. if we lower the shame people will talk about their depression and they can be convinced not to kill themselves-- whatever you think is the best way to convince people not to kill themselves. Yes if somebody says "I'm going to kill myself" some people will say "that's cool -- I'm depressed too!" But some nice person might say "no, don't -- let's talk. let's make bread together." If they live in a country where it is shameful to talk about depression they will lose both possible responses. That's not associated with good outcomes. On a personal note -- I've lived in the world where it was shameful to admit to any sort of mental health problem, and it wasn't great.
I lived in the world where it was cool and normal to disclose depression and suicidality, I was depressed and suicidal and no one ever cared. First, empathy burnout. Mental support is delegated to the professionals and people just stop interacting. Second, people who want to live like that are cluster B and will make you guilty for demanding of them emotional labour and later will use the disclosure for abuse. Third, where everyone is depressed you don’t want to be a burden for them and the depression is used as excuse for being bad friend.
I have never known any truly suicidal person who either attempted it or almost attempted it to ever wear it as a badge of honor. It is extremely embarrassing and something you really never want to admit to anyone else that you've "been there". The few times I've seen it thrown around nonchalantly are people with diagnosed BPD. They don't care. They want to see how people will react or they're trying to avoid natural consequence.
The only times I’ve shared with people is when there’s a chance that someone may be in a similar situation like a veteran or a transgender person. To save a life or show a pathway to live is an acceptable time to open up and share.
Thank you for teaching me a new word, it took a bit of inquiry before I could comprehend the meaning and the context, but I will definitely be using it more often in the future.
Good analysis. As a Buddhist, it is understood, "Impermanence rules "...a basic bit of knowledge that should prompt one to Endeavor to Persevere!
Considering life as an opportunity to focus on your human life...it's many potential outcomes based on choice, is a game changer. Use of your time AVOIDING self-grasping ignorance leads to maturity and wisdom.
Society not enabling suicidal ideation, points those "seeking views", in social media parlance, to seek choices beyond dependency on strangers opinions on social media.
On my first read of this incredible article, and in response to the TikTok lady, I somehow jumped to the words in 'The Devil Wears Prada' : "you are not trying. You are whining."
This has become a life hack for unexceptional people to get the attention they crave. Why be exceptional or resilient when you can just be oppressed by life? Both paths will give you attention but one is a lot more work.
You are spot on, Hannah. “Depression” and “suicidality” have been weaponised as means of controlling others, mostly parents, partners, teachers and members of the caring professions.
Another insightful presentation by Dr. Spier exposing the manipulative perversion of the concept of "mental health". Thought experiment: drop these young women on the prairie that their great-grandmothers conquered. Buck up or die. This is not hyperbole. Vigorous, necessary manual labor produces a biological state where the brain does not permit the state of "depression". That is not to say that true "endogenous" depression does not exist. We have all seen it. It is not anything like what is exhibited in the videos. Yours, Samuel M, MD.
Thank you Samuel, this is so true. Sometime I find my safe thinking- wow these kids need a war. They want adversity so badly they are hurting themselves to get it.
This histrionic performance piece was not at all like the suicide attempt my wife made. I brought up the subject of divorce for the first time and she didn't yell, scream at me, or hit me like she usually does. She went silent and emotionally withdrew, sort of shutting down. That same night she quietly slipped out of bed while we were sleeping and set the house on fire, then slipped back into bed so we would all die together. Fortunately the smoke alarms went off. I covered for her by telling the kids that the water heater was what started the fire. She was getting treatment for bipolar disorder with psychotic behaviors, meaning that she suffered from hearing voices in her head and intrusive thoughts that urged her to harm herself and told her she was broken and useless, that everyone would be better off if she was dead. Very early in our marriage she was diagnosed with manic depression and hypersexual disorder.
My goodness Kurt I’m really sorry you all experienced that. I hope you are have recovered and the kids didn’t suffer any lasting effects that event. Indeed, the suicidality of bipolar individuals is a different kettle of fish.
Wow, this is real nightmare. Glad to hear that you all survived and in the end nothing happened
A key paragraph
"What we are seeing is an inversion. In the clinical presentation, the person often hides suicidal intent because she wants to die without being stopped. In the performative presentation, suicidal language is made public because the reaction is the point. It becomes virtue signalling and leverage to move the world into compliance."
Thank you.
I know Terence Pop will be on your program to discuss this very dark reality.
When I read this article what strikes me is the repetition of a pattern that dominates the West.
The truth / reality is almost always the inversion of the propaganda 'consensus' narrative.
The propaganda consensus narrative is almost always fictitious. Or at least limited on truth.
But the fiction survives because it is subsidized. The source of subsidization can be government, media, academia, wealthy social engineers, 'foundations,' transnational globalists, big tech, big business, to name the top dogs. There are usually multiple of these sources involved.
Men 'successfully' self-delete multiple times more than women. There is little concern in society for men, which is not new, because they are treated as disposable (see war). And there is little concern for men deleting themselves. E.g., see another, recent, case of a school immediately, unquestioningly believing a female's false accusation of SA against a young man, Owen Poirier.
https://rumble.com/v7crhh6-what-happened-to-owen-poirier-should-never-happen-again.html
Women make THREATS of suicide multiple times more than men, but are 'unsuccessful.' So whereas the real threat of self-deletion of men is marginalized, the performative threats of attention-seeking (not all) women receive almost all the focus and the vast majority of the resources. "there are approximately three female suicide attempts per every one male suicide attempt"
https://cams-care.com/resources/educational-content/the-gender-paradox-of-suicide/
I think you are saying that a worthwhile reversion is to cease rewarding (subsidizing) the performative. I realize there are absolutely valid cases where people need differing degrees (triage) of outside help. But, generally, the culture of the West is an expectation that an individual takes responsibility & accountability for their actions. And their thoughts, by extension. We lost the balance. But I think the only way to cut off rewarding the performative is to reach even further back and destroy, yes destroy, the numerous motivations (agendas) that drive the rewarding of the performative in the first place,
https://therationalmale.com/2017/12/01/men-and-suicide/
As a post-op trans woman diagnosed with severe combat PTSD from the Bosnian and Kosovo civil wars, this article hits hard but I find it accurate on a delicate subject. I’ve had to almost fight well-meaning people and professionals to let me define my recovery towards actual recovery! There are financial rewards to the system to keep people like myself in recovery so it disincentivizes recovery to a degree. I finally broke my frightening occurrences of suicidal ideation by realizing I actually wasn’t wanting to die but wanted a less painful life. Being a Buddhist helped me because we note that life is fundamentally painful and we take steps to understand and reduce its effect. I get shunned because I believe there can be successful recoveries and a return to more or less regular life and it doesn’t make me better than others - just resilient. There’s a history of suicide in our family so my Mom made me promise her I would reach out if I ever felt the need. It happened twice and in the moments before I felt it was going to happen I reached out which saved my life. Suicide is not something to be using as a badge of courage. It’s horrifying and frightening when you can’t trust yourself to let yourself survive. Many veterans (and trans women) are dead. More than died in actual combat. I am trying not to be the next casualty and I think I will succeed. To those who think there’s no reason to share about brushes with suicide - there’s one I know of - that’s to try to save others that may be in similar situations.
"We have spent years teaching young people that suffering confers insight, that victimhood confers moral authority and that the person who has been hurt most should be listened to first." 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Some people do not possess the motional resilience to engage and persevere through typical, normal daily activities. Sad truth about doing the math and weighing the costs of effort, time, and return on investment.
but maybe they just couldn't make it in the adult world and thus regress functionally into dependency. the functioning adults muddle through for better or worse depending on their health (mental and physical) and circumstances. generation after generation for the last 2,000-3,000 cycles ?
Yes, it’s called adulthood and it’s been done for millennia! 💪 But today’s fragile souls can’t handle ANYTHING without feeling like a victim!😡 No grit in their precious little weak lives…🤡
You are 100% right about the diagnosis. Shaming will make some people buck up and go on with their lives. Lack of shame will make some people talk about depression a lot more than is appropriate. I believe your approach comes from a good place. It will still kill people. Yes there are some people who hide their suicidality tactically -- and these people can't be shamed out of it. Raising the shame on depression will not save any of them. But there are other people who would talk about it, except they are worried about being shamed and mocked. When people are shamed for discussing depression they hide it and since it is less legible that they are depressed it's less likely anybody will offer them help. if we lower the shame people will talk about their depression and they can be convinced not to kill themselves-- whatever you think is the best way to convince people not to kill themselves. Yes if somebody says "I'm going to kill myself" some people will say "that's cool -- I'm depressed too!" But some nice person might say "no, don't -- let's talk. let's make bread together." If they live in a country where it is shameful to talk about depression they will lose both possible responses. That's not associated with good outcomes. On a personal note -- I've lived in the world where it was shameful to admit to any sort of mental health problem, and it wasn't great.
I lived in the world where it was cool and normal to disclose depression and suicidality, I was depressed and suicidal and no one ever cared. First, empathy burnout. Mental support is delegated to the professionals and people just stop interacting. Second, people who want to live like that are cluster B and will make you guilty for demanding of them emotional labour and later will use the disclosure for abuse. Third, where everyone is depressed you don’t want to be a burden for them and the depression is used as excuse for being bad friend.
I have never known any truly suicidal person who either attempted it or almost attempted it to ever wear it as a badge of honor. It is extremely embarrassing and something you really never want to admit to anyone else that you've "been there". The few times I've seen it thrown around nonchalantly are people with diagnosed BPD. They don't care. They want to see how people will react or they're trying to avoid natural consequence.
The only times I’ve shared with people is when there’s a chance that someone may be in a similar situation like a veteran or a transgender person. To save a life or show a pathway to live is an acceptable time to open up and share.
Just recently on Social media I saw a post by a woman claiming to be a Psychologist that her husband after she ended the marriage committed suicide.
The kicker is that she labeled it as "Revenge Suicide". The idea was that he was trying to punish her by committing suicide. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/husband-died-revenge-suicide-safety_n_69c51605e4b0e447525c5996?ref=bffbhuffpost&ncid_tag=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=us_main&d_id=12158823&fbclid=IwY2xjawTGLUpleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETEzWEtWc0pIUFY5d0dxblNPc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHsLTkxfFhbdgj93PNbev0e-1h6GDnyksvLy5TqMWXKrU6Ey1R3HjMT9Be9CA_aem_KI5UqxlE0HcuTnDzKoN2vw
It happens.
Claiming someone else killed themselves just to hurt you emotionally...has to be apex level narcissism!?!
When they lay it out in a suicide note, it’s pretty hard to refute.
Thats one angle the other is "Look how much you hurt me!"
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Solipsism
Thank you for teaching me a new word, it took a bit of inquiry before I could comprehend the meaning and the context, but I will definitely be using it more often in the future.
You are brave!
Good analysis. As a Buddhist, it is understood, "Impermanence rules "...a basic bit of knowledge that should prompt one to Endeavor to Persevere!
Considering life as an opportunity to focus on your human life...it's many potential outcomes based on choice, is a game changer. Use of your time AVOIDING self-grasping ignorance leads to maturity and wisdom.
Society not enabling suicidal ideation, points those "seeking views", in social media parlance, to seek choices beyond dependency on strangers opinions on social media.
The ways to get attention. Be famous, be infamous, be a victim.
On my first read of this incredible article, and in response to the TikTok lady, I somehow jumped to the words in 'The Devil Wears Prada' : "you are not trying. You are whining."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAIOUO0plTc
I am surprised at what people put on their Social Media and will leave it at that.