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PasMacabre's avatar

I highly recommend watching Stephen Shaw's presentation #Birthgap and also the one at the ARC Convention.

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PasMacabre's avatar

Hi Hannah. I appreciate your work. A suggestion which is not an original idea is something Jonathan Haidt did https://www.thecoddling.com/international-coddling. Some of the information you have for some of the nordic countries, I wonder if the community can help you collect the same information in various countries and see where the similarities are.

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Great Igloo's avatar

Why is the discussion centered on women not having children, rather than men not having children? Do you have any data on what men say about their own childlessness? After all, there are more childless men than childless women. Women may be responding to the lack of commitment in men and men's growing rejection of family life.

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Chris1066's avatar

How about socialism, that if you pay the state, the state can take care of your children while you play the corporate ladder……

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Hannah Spier, MD's avatar

I think the daycare situation is broader than socialism. Daycares are normalized across the West (at least) regardless of political ideology. In Switzerland, the most conservative country in Western Europe where daycares are fully privatized, paying the obscene price to have the privilege of attending to your self-realization is so widespread, those who choose not to do so find themselves alone. To me, feminism seems the common denominator, but of course socialism helps.

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Chris1066's avatar

I agree with you👍😊.

I have zero idea how much daycare costs where I am in the UK but when some women say it is too expensive to have children because of the cost of living, maybe the few who feel they can have good living standards by having it all, that number is very small.

Children are good to have if you have unlimited funds to be a homestay mother or have the state fund it all if you are poor.

There's nothing in the middle.

Just checked.

£305 per child under two per week.

https://www.daynurseries.co.uk/advice/how-much-does-childcare-cost-in-england-2024#:~:text=and%20February%202024.-,How%20much%20does%20full%2Dtime%20nursery%20cost%20in%20England%3F,(£15%2C120.04%20a%20year).

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Stephen's avatar

40 minutes in, fascinating discussion.

Tangent: never trust a Rhodes Scholar to be acting or speaking sincerely. Historian Carroll Quigley is a name everyone should be acquainted with. https://veteranstoday.com/2022/04/07/rhodes-scholarships-and-the-british-network-of-agents-in-the-world/

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Stiklestad's avatar

Watching this now. Initial thought: yes, lifelong marriage. Is it a value for people like this young woman? (Vs. baby-daddy).

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Stiklestad's avatar

Additionally: are men just commodities? Are they assuming they are available when merely wanted .

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Great Igloo's avatar

This is laughable. Women are constantly objectified and used for sex. Women are paid for sex and paid to be in p*** videos. Women are far more commodified than men.

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Stiklestad's avatar

I can see placing the blame on men on the horizon! Not very funny, but funny. I guess I am dancing around the hypergamy issue. I would be interested in anyone's thoughts about the "relationship nexus."

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Great Igloo's avatar

There needs to be more research into this. As a woman in her 30s, it's been my experience that most guys I go out with do not want children. And I date people who are equivalent to me in social status and financial status. In fact, I've gone out with man who make less money and have less savings, so I really think the hypergamy issue is not as much of a problem as you think.

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Great Igloo's avatar

Single parenthood is far more damaging to women than men. Why would a woman prefer single parenthood over a marriage?

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Tom Golden's avatar

Excellent discussion! Thank you Hannah and Stephen.

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